A preview of the book to be found here: Positive Christianity in the Third Reich”
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Thanks Dietlef for that. I read the review.

“I ask myself this question everyday, if we had one more chance of having a noble leader as Adolf Hitler and an united German Nation as back then, would I follow a National Socialist State under positive Christianity? My answer is YES!

Would you?”
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Well, in a qualified sense, yes, because the worst of established Christianity would be neutralized into harmlessness.

NS “Positive Christianity” comes across as a kind of fuzzy accommodation of “Christianity” with the acceptance of all the good bits of Christianity and the rejection of the other bits. It also insisted that the established churches keep their noses out of the affairs of State where they conflict.

My basic issue with Christianity is that it’s a belief system based on a story foundation that is simply unbelievable when looked at with modern commonsense. A belief system that has legs because it’s been useful to rulers in keeping control, through “promises” of everlasting carrot or stick, of their populations. The good bits of Christianity, like; kindness to others, don’t lie and cheat, etc., all pre-date it.

Christianity at root is a man-made thing, and it also happens to be intimately tangled up with the damned jews, who are milking its effects for all its worth by inducing mass guilt among Whites to commit racial suicide by all the methods talked about in this blog and others.

I like that saying, “perfection is the enemy of the good.” So, in any case Dietlef, your type of Christianity sounds acceptable enough for me. If the millions of American Christian Zionists could adopt your Christianity we would be in a much better place.

Dr. Cajus Fabricius

He was a NSDAP member (born 1884-1950) and head of the Theology Department in Germany (he wrote numerous books) Against Atheism

A preview of the book to be found here:

Positive Christianity in the Third Reich

Fabricius was a theologian and a convinced National Socialist, and he felt he needed to address Christianity in the Third Reich because even after Hitler took power, evil forces were leading young German minds astray and driving a wedge between Christianity and National Socialism. Fabricius was an official within the State, and a political leader within the Party, and one would think that his religious convictions would clash. However, Dr. Fabricius refutes this:
“My religious duties and political duties do not clash . . . but rather the one supplements the other, and both stand together in complete harmony. Indeed, they do more than this: In my own and thought, Christianity and National Socialism are closely knit together. And because I am a Christian and a a theologian, I felt compelled to put on the “brown shirt.”

Also look into Karl Lueger, one of Adolf Hitler’s mentors’ you will find a clearer image of Adolf Hitler in his time spent in Vienna.

And also Adolf Hittler’s Christianity who remained a devout Catholic his whole life, was not ex-communicated and died as a Catholic in act we perceive as the noble cede of a warrior in Christ.

I ask myself this question everyday, if we had one more chance of having a noble leader as Adolf Hitler and an united German Nation as back then, would I follow a National Socialist State under positive Christianity? My answer is YES!

Would you?

“We can take it that he spoke critically of Christianity, but of what part did he mean? I don’t think he meant accross the board. You seem to be as much arguing for an anti-Christian Hitler as Dietlef is arguing for a Christian Hitler.”
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The “anti-Christian” label is very broad-brushed as it can be read as not only as a rejection of the Christian belief system itself but also as a rejection of the people who hold such beliefs whether they hold high office in the Church establishment or are merely the common people. As the vast majority of Germans were Christians of one sort or the other and Hitler himself was one in his early days, I’d say his “anti-Christianity” was of a hard kind and a soft kind that recognized the fatal faults and crippling limitations of Christianity but also recognized that his people, the German folk, were deeply influenced and immersed in it.

But, as I mentioned, I haven’t studied TT other than a quick look through. Then there’s the issue of translation and authenticity, etc as you say. In other words I can see there’s likely a fair amount of wriggle room for interpretation. We will find out.

“There is no doubt that Hitler had plenty of complaints against the Churches and the Churchmen in Germany, but his private beliefs were his own.”
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And rightly so. There’s that old and cynical saying about religion that goes something like this, “The masses believe it, the wise think it foolish, and rulers find it useful.”

Hitler was from the masses, was wise and became a ruler. That explains a lot of Hitler’s, perhaps contradictory, words as he navigated his way to power and being in power.

“He always spoke well of Christ, which anti-Christians do not do. He always said Jesus Christ was not a jew — very controversial, so if he didn’t care about Christianity, why would he bother or care?”
—————–
He cared about Christianity because his people cared about Christianity. Likewise, declaring Jesus a jew would have put himself in a rather tricky situation, wouldn’t it have? I suppose he could have said that Jesus was a reformed jew, a “Good Jew”, but at the expense of much division and infighting for no good at all.

“He always spoke of Christ as a fighter (that’s the Jesus Christ he liked) – a fighter against the jews. So be careful of proclaiming he “grew past it all”.”
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Yes, I agree that “Christ” was a fighter against evil, and therefore a fighter against jewry. And given what Germans believed then it was useful and necessary for Hitler to harness that sense of righteousness.

Of course, I say he “grew past it all” because that is my own experience and would find it very extremely surprising (yet possible, I suppose) if Hitler had not grown out of that level of indoctrinated belief system called Christianity, given his incredible journey through life.

“National Socialism is based on Christian principles … but for insiders (“us”), not outsiders. That seems to be the difference. I don’t think the German National Church would be sending missionaries to Africa to convert them.”
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Another way of looking at it is that Christianity contains National Socialism principles of looking after ones own, that in turn merely embraces White peoples principles that existed long before Christianity was even in the cradle.

National Socialism is based on Christian principles … but for insiders (“us”), not outsiders. That seems to be the difference. I don’t think the German National Church would be sending missionaries to Africa to convert them.

I’ve only read bits of Table Talks, so I’m not really in a position to argue about particular apparent contradictions. But in general one would expect that some contradictions would occur in a person’s views over a three odd year period of off the record free ranging discussions or monologues (while engaged in the biggest war of the ages). Especially when put down in cold hard print and analyzed critically.

That said, in your example given, Hitler says that:
“Christianity is an invention of sick brains”.

Then you quote him as saying:
“An uneducated man, on the other hand, runs the risk of going over to atheism (which is a return to the state of the animal)”.

Do these statements really contradict each other? Rejecting Christianity or any other organized religion doesn’t necessarily make you an “atheist”, does it?

My impression is that Table Talks shows clearly that Hitler saw Christianity as a man made creation. For me this makes perfect sense as he was a man driven by a search for the truth about our reality. Christianity, despite all its dogmatic certainties, is just a way station for such people.

Carolyn has announced that TT will follow TIJ, so we will all have plenty of opportunity to agree and disagree over the following months. And most of all, to live and learn!

The following is illustrative of the types of quotations that are popularly cited, all from the Trevor-Roper edition:
If my presence on earth is providential, I owe it to a superior will. But I owe nothing to the Church that traffics in the salvation of souls, and I find it really too cruel. … Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. It will last another hundred years, two hundred years perhaps. My regret will have been that I couldn’t, like whoever the prophet was, behold the promised land from afar. We are entering into a conception of the world that will be a sunny era, an era of tolerance. … What is important above all is that we should prevent a greater lie from replacing the lie that is disappearing. The world of Judeo-Bolshevism must collapse.
I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors ­ but to devote myself deliberately to error, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie.
But Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.

However, the Table-Talk also is filled with many quotations like the following:
We don’t want to educate anyone in atheism.
An uneducated man, on the other hand, runs the risk of going over to atheism (which is a return to the state of the animal).
It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to re-establish the worship of Wotan. Our old mythology had ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself.

So we appear to be presented with two different extremes in the same document. It should further be pointed out that nowhere in the Table-Talk does it record Hitler denouncing Jesus Christ or his own Christian faith.

It is very likely that the Table-Talk is indeed based upon actual statements of Hitler, but given the numerous internal inconsistencies and statements that appear to contradict the public and published statements of Hitler, we need to determine if these writings have undergone editing or interpolations. To do this, we must understand how this book came to be. […] [comment terminated here by cy]

To expect that Hitler thought, and would express himself, exactly the same in speeches in 1920-21, in Mein Kampf in 1925, as he did in dinner-table talk among intimates in 1941-44, is not realistic. I no longer see any reason to dismiss the Table Talk notes, and certainly not to liken them to Rauschning or Conrad Heiden. In fact, I’ve been planning for several months already to read TT following completion of The International Jew. I think it will be a vastly interesting adventure.

@ John Rees, which one of the spurious “Table-Talks”, here are three sources in German for the Table-Talk: the Bormann Notes copy of Genoud, which contains the full brunt, of Bormann’s editing’s; the fragment of the Bormann Notes in the Library of Congress; and the limited German text of Picker?

Each one I can give a full analysis on, but I think you got the message regarding the German churches as set out above.
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Dietlef Busch, can you give some solid reasons why you think “Table-Talks” are spurious?

Since it contain many opinions that are quite negative towards Christianity I can understand your antipathy.

I’m not a Christian, although I was in a way in my late teens many years ago and so can understand your attachment to it.

If you are right that Hitler did not see Christianity as a man made belief system, which Table Talks indicate, then Hitler was not a realist. That I can’t believe, given everything Hitler said and did.

“The moving beyond Christianity is a normal progression…”
Except that it is not. This entire premise, from your first sentence, is false. There was no “normal progression” to move “beyond Christianity”. Since, the “Enlightenment era” there has been an open conspiracy, openly attacking and attempting to destroy Christianity.

I am sure the sudden love for multiculturalism and diversity is a “natural progression” too, right? People are naturally moving beyond nations and race.

I am sure the sudden love for this LBGTQ asexual, bestiality, paedophilia ramblings are what also, a “natural progression” too, right?

Yes, gradually, all on their own, people are learning to move beyond gender, race, nation, language, heritage, folklore, tradition into one enormous melting pot, a “natural progression”…….. right?

You are obviously not familiar what set the National Socialists apart from the Marxists in the turbulent 1920’s, which was positive Christianity. Adolf Hitler presented to the Germans a platform whose twenty-five points were based on Christian principles and what Adolf Hitler told them rang true with their Christianity. Gottfried Feder was appointed by Adolf Hitler on February 14, 1923, to be the final judge of all questions relating to the Party Platform.

Feder wrote this about Point 24:
“The same can be said of all the coarse, stupid attacks on Christianity. Expressions such as “Christianity has only done harm” merely show that the man that utters them has neither human nor political intelligence. One may indeed blame the (Catholic & Protestant) Church (ians)…but it is wrong to abuse in general terms the greatest phenomenon in human history because of the perversities and erroneous ideas and defaults of individuals. The Christian religion has uplifted and strengthened millions upon millions, and brought them to God by the way of suffering.”

Walter Buch, President of the NSDAP Supreme Court and father-in-law of Martin Bormann stated:
“When point 24 of our programme says the party stands for positive Christianity, here above all is the cornerstone of our thinking. Christ preached struggle as did no other. His life was a struggle for his beliefs, for which he went to death. From everyone He demanded a decision between yes or no….That is the necessity: the man find the power to decide between yes or no.”
(Walter Buch, Geist und Kampf, Speech given between 1930 and 1932)

“I am well aware of the Christian attempt to disconnect from Judaic thought structures”….
And Dr. Töben, please start to distinguish between the Masoretic Text and the New and Old Testament Septuagint (which includes the Apocrypha). Great advances have been made in Biblical scholarship in Germany, scholars like Tischendorf, Eberhard Nestle, Hermann von Soden etc., in fact, during the 1920’s and 1930’s, all across Germany, more important advances in philology and textual studies of the Holy Scriptures, were made in Germany, than any other time or place in history! Many of these great projects started before World War I, and the war caused a delay in their progress. Hitler believed that these advances of scholarship would soon combine with the rich tradition of both the Catholic and Protestant professions in Germany and root out whatever Talmud-Judaic corruptions had entered into the churches in Germany. The Catholic Church in Germany had a clear history of opposition to the Jews, and Luther too, later in his career (after clearing his head of “Jesus Christ was a Jew”), had clearly identified the Jews as the single biggest corrupter of Christianity and actively opposed them. German Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, knew the history of their churches. With the clarity of scholarship bringing to light where and how the Jews had corrupted both confessions, it was just a matter of time before an even greater reformation would sweep through all the Churches in Germany and restore them to the true, positive, apostolic Christianity of the first century.

As to your reference of Gottgläubiger Weltanschauung = Christology.

As for the Ahnenpass, where do you think that came from? Ever heard of the tenth generation verse in the Holy Scriptures? German City Halls (“Standesamt”) started their records at 1877, prior to that births / marriages / deaths were kept in church records (German : Kirchenbücher, short: “KB”). The purpose of the Ahnenpass was not to distinguish whether you were christened and what confession you belonged to, but to proof you had no Jewish roots in your family tree (Tree of Life, also to be found in the Holy Scriptures) and that you are a “pure” German. As a sidenote: many families who have researched their German ancestry stumbled upon inaccuracies (not saying yours are).

Furthermore, as much as Horst Mahler and Sylvia Stolz (and the rest of our political prisoners) are in our prays, keep in mind Horst Mahler came from the radical left (RAF) and the “Junge Freiheit” (left) is much in line with his Hegelinism.

The father/mother/child Trinity concept does not come from Hegel, but it comes being part of a family. Vaterland/Muttersprache/Volk = “Aryan” (German philologist Max Müller (1823-1900) popularized the term in his writings on comparative linguistics, recommending it as the name (replacing Indo-European, Indo-Germanic, Caucasian) for the group of related, inflected languages connected with these peoples, mostly found in Europe), “noble, of good family.”

As for the Talmud-Judaic “Noahide” Babylon Laws and your opponent swearing on the so-called “Old Testament”. Did you actually see it, moved up closer or did you just see “Bible”. I do not see what that has to do with you wanting to proof something, if anything?

Seriously Dr. Töben, to give Obama’s video as “the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth…” as “evidence”?

Regarding your “act of love” and “original sin”

How to Destroy Nations with Love and Tolerance

@ John Rees, which one of the spurious “Table-Talks”, here are three sources in German for the Table-Talk: the Bormann Notes copy of Genoud, which contains the full brunt, of Bormann’s editing’s; the fragment of the Bormann Notes in the Library of Congress; and the limited German text of Picker?

Each one I can give a full analysis on, but I think you got the message regarding the German churches as set out above.

There is a number of other forged or heavily tampered-with documents. Here, I will provide just a brief list.
– Works by Konrad Heiden, Hans Bernard Gisevius, Erich Kordt, and Fritz Wiedemann have also proven to be concoctions.
– Carl Jakob Burckhardt’s diary.
– Hermann Rauschning’s Conversations with Hitler is largely embellished and fictional.
– Fritz Thyssen’s I Paid Hitler.
– The forged Christa Schroeder diary, actually written by Albert Zoller.
– Large sections of The Testament of Adolf Hitler are probably fictitious.
– The diaries of Vice Admiral Wilhelm Canaris.
– Eva Braun’s diaries (forged from the diary of Countess Irma Larisch-Wallersee). There did exist an authentic diary of Braun, which was recovered after the war, but this diary disappeared shortly thereafter and has never been seen again.
– The diary of Feliz Kersten, the reported masseuse of Himmler and Ribbentrop, is also a complete fraud.
– There are obvious corruptions and frauds in Count Galeazzo Ciano’s famous diaries.
– Luftwaffe Chief of Staff Karl Koller’s published diary is a forgery.

And the list goes on. Even authentic diaries, memoirs, or accounts are likely to contain corruptions or interpolations from the publishers.

The moving beyond Christianity is a normal progression, as individuals are doing all the time, except too many fall into the atheism-nihilism-self-destruction of modern materialism because they have no spirituality. The eastern religions’ spirituality are lacking practical application and you can see how poverty-ridden societies are wherein they flourish in Asia, etc. It is a matter of values – and I know that in Cambodia, etc. Buddhist men, if they feel the need, just walk out of their family and settle in monasteries – we have many such deserted wives and children in Australia who have been happily picked up by Australian men who cannot make it with their own women.
I was born in 1944 and I can trace our family back to the 17th century – Ahnenpass – and I was not christened but became Gottglaeubig – God believing!

This process of a new religion emerging is a generational process and takes time – and the opposition to it will be vicious as we witness now with the various post-Christian religions such as Scientology and Mormonism, even Baha’i, that collect wisdom from all others, then make it their own. The Germans would develop further their Weltanschauung through philosophical discourse rather than falling back on quotations from some books declared to be holy and beyond content-dispute.
I am well aware of the Christian attempt to disconnect from Judaic thought structures, and I recall at one of my court cases how my opponent swore on the Old Testament because the attendant had been instructed to open the court Bible, and the fellow placed his right hand on the Old Testament part of the Bible.
Karma, reincarnation, esoteric knowledge are all fields that are covered in philosophy and in Wagner’s creative impulse, though some Wagner experts such as Andrew Gray claim that Wagner did not go along with any thoughts of transcendence. Philosophically one regards the NATURE processes and realizes like in Ecclesiastes: One generation comes and another goes, or something like that. Eternal life is the memory an individual leaves behind…and that may be too brutal an assessment for a gentle soul to grasp and to accept because then we ask again those basic four philosophical questions wherein we hope to find the answers that our questing minds seek: what is the purpose of life; will it be a mediated one or a direct connection to the pulsations of the universe – to our God?
I find it refreshing what Carolyn is digging up as she revises the conventional received wisdom about evil Germans, etc.
The approach of focusing on the Unconditional Surrender being an extermination policy in action is productive because it reveals one of the evil forces that is out to destroy the Germanic mind and its value system, which is the Talmudic-Judaic mindset.
Horst Mahler uses the Hegelian dialectic to solve this conflict because that is the process, the force, that moves our thinking. If we talk about “exterminating” our enemy, as some commentators do, then we are actually using the Talmudic-Marxist death dialectic that was used on Germans during and after the war, and which succeeded in crippling Germanic impulses. But after three generations of this the Germanic Youth is back on its feet, ever so gently, and asking questions…as the Germans have done for over 2000 years. I recall when the DDR existed we predicted it would not last too long because the Germanic impulse would transcend the Talmudic-Marxist ideological mental constraints imposed on the Germans.
Now that Materialism and Holocaust religion has replaced any semblance of a belief, the Germanic impulse will do its work – but again that’s a generational problem…
And finally note this clip wherein the US President Obama references Holocaust with the Abrahamic religions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2S7Ts0LKgqE
That confirms the Judaic attempt to enshrine it as a religion for the non-Jews who have fallen by the wayside and now need another guilt trip, just as absurd as the one with the original sin concept. How can the act of love, the creation of life be sinful and deserving of punishment by a God?