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Good show, guys. One point Hadding made that I think needs to be emphasized is that revisionism was political almost from day one. ‘The’ ‘Holocaust’ wasn’t really a thing until the ’70s, and the bulk of revisionism seems to have arisen to dispute it. So there truly is no way to separate historical fact-finding/’holocaust’ fraud from White politics.
I would like to see Hadding enlarge on this discussion, if possible.
Anyway, good show, and nice to hear voices of people I never heard before – Mr. Krafft had a very unusual in-road to WN compared to most of us, for sure.
Thanks Alex. These are important topics. Revisionism actually started in the late ’40s, but had only a handful of people because it wasn’t a BIG topic. Paul Rassinier’s first two books came out in 1948 and 1950. The reparations discussions started around 1951 and the German-Israel agreement signed in fall 1952. The focus then was on building Israel, getting Jews to go there, and getting money for that purpose. Yad Vashem Memorial Museum was established in Jerusalem in 1953. No one bragged about being a survivor though; they weren’t thought so highly of. Wiesel’s book didn’t come out in America until 1960, and was slow to take off … until it got into the schools, and then on Oprah’s book club list.
Here is a history of the Holocaust Revisionist movement, written by Willis Carto. http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/23.pdf It concurs that not much happened until the ’70’s. An interesting excerpt:
In the case of Paul Rassinier, a French Marxist who was an early revisionist and became a major source for Harwood/Verrall, the motive was apparently not political. He was just unwilling to stand by and watch the Germans be victimized with lies.
Maurice Bardèche, another Frenchman, contemporary with Rassinier but a kind of fascist, certainly had some political motives, and some personal motives, since his brother-in-law Robert Brasillach was murdered by the post-war French government.
On the other side however, the people pushing the gas-chamber story always had political motives — distraction from the horrors of Communist conquest and rule, justification of the sacrifices made for war, suppression of Germany, establishment of the Jewish state, infinite indulgence of that state, etc.
When that weapon was directed against British nationalism,Harwood/Verrall’s Did Six Million Really Die? was the response.
The Origins of Holocaustianity started by Jewish extremists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V3PdeNPT3U&bpctr=1343537824&skipcontrinter=1
It’s strange to me that the more prominent figures in the White Cause seem unaware that there is no “one thing” that appeals to everybody. Society is a collective of cross sections representing different generations, regional perspectives, and a strata of economic and social classes. Only people who are working to navigate social circles in which it is necessary for them to disguise their racism as a mild and somewhat tolerable observation of scientific facts, find Holocaust factualism harmful to their image and efforts. These type of people see Conservatives and Establishment Intellectuals as their target audience so I understand their irritation with Holocaust Factualism.
However I’ve found that leftists, who are not necessarily racists, are often very open to facts about the Holocaust. Many people who identify as liberals are really just Anti-War, anti-Israel, anti-corporate, folkish type people. They don’t like hip-hop culture or its simian progenitors any more than racists. Facts about the Holocaust can facilitate an awakening in certain demographics and so it is important, and should always be supported, not discouraged, by anyone who is serious about White survival. We should develop and apply whatever works. We should simply identify the target audience with whom we as individuals feel we can be most effective with and tailor our message to align with whatever is most likely to precipitate a graduation to racial consciousness.
There is no one way to talk to everyone and we need quality people from all walks. If we aim to win and beleive in our cause, than we must believe that history will smile on Holocaust Factualism and celebrate its pioneers as heroes. There shouldn’t be any debate over whether or not someone has inflicted the correct type of damage to the dam. And furthermore Holocaust Revisionism isn’t as much of a taboo in many countries outside of Europe and the United States.
Excellent program
James, if Jewish power is the main problem then catering to the preferences of people who don’t want to hear anything that Zionist Jews find disagreeable seems a dead end.
There is much more hope on the left, and with the growing population of White people who have no high status to lose.
The Holohoax and Reich-defamation are the main pillars supporting cultural Marxism. They form a solid wall in the way of white Nationalism. Only by removing the pillars of that temple one at a time and bringing it down can Nationalism succeed anywhere.
Only by exposing the holohoax and restoring the reputations of leading defamed nazi figures including Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler and the Reich itself can we avoid the successful labelling of Nationalists with the current implication of the term ‘nazi’. That term has to be re-branded and declawed by truth so it no longer carries the defamation it successfully carries now. This defamation particularly holds down the German people but affects us all.
The reason the late Jonathon Bowden and the New right have never achieved anything, and I ask anyone to prove me wrong, is because they tried to skirt these issues (including the true effects of race and immigration) and remain talking about academic side-issues of interest to no-one but themselves.
Those pillars can only be taken down by having an organization like the IHR dedicate at least one member of staff to full-time research in ‘Holocaust’ and second world war archives. We hear many accusations against many leading figures of the Reich and no one troubles themselves to research the actual documents, including David Irving with his loose claims about mass exterminations on the Eastern Front.
Many fear that the Jewspeak with which Irving is trying to sell his forthcoming book on Himmler on his website by flashing up the ad “Adolf Hitlers Sinister Lieutenant Heinrich Himmler” is a presage to a torpedo in the side of revisionism, and David sidling up to the Jews in the interests of the future careers and life-prospects of his young offspring (to be blunt).
Secondly white men have been emasculated and this has to be the second most significant problem white nationalism must confront. White Nationalist men must learn to be men, talk about how to be men, research chivalry and practice in groups the martial arts, marching in a military fashion and learning discipline and abstinence. Women in the movement will react to that by bringing back the feminine virtues and the values of motherhood but only if the men create a nest of respect and understanding in which that can arise, otherwise Nationalist women will be the losers.
We need to develope our own fashions; refuse to wear negro clothing and hoodies and look like white people.
Jonathan Bowden — however much Greg Johnson would like to pretend to be following in Bowden’s path by hijacking the label “New Right” and abusing some of Bowden’s verbal expressions — advocated Holocaust revisionism. He even recommended some book-titles in his speech, “Historical Revisionism.”
http://national-socialist-worldview.blogspot.com/p/speeches-of-jonathan-bowden.html
Once more Carolyn has a provocative and yet informative show that gets one to thinking hard on the issues.
As a Christian, and I believe there are too many Christians in the White Nationalist movement to ignore, there must be standards in what we strive for. As Carolyn stated, National Socialism was family based… THEY HAD STANDARDS! How else could Hitler have mesmerized his audience and speaking to them for up to 4 hours at a time, without having standards? Standards pull people together… high standards. I believe the Germans of the Third Reich had the highest standards of maybe any group of people on earth. And no, I don’t just believe it… I KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE. It is why the Jews must destroy us.
With standards so important, the minimizing of the homosexual agenda by ‘some’ of the writers in this movement will totally destroy us before we even get started to become accepted to the many. To think that homosexuals will be a legitimate part of the White movement is absolutely absurd. It will drive the masses away from us.
Here’s what will happen: Christians will NOT take part in something like this and will not join. Families will NOT take part in something like this and will not join. Any DECENT individual will never become part of this and will not join.
Then the talk about distancing ourselves from the holocaust debate is not good either. This is an important issue where we are becoming successful and has the ability to totally discredit the monstrous Jew. When I first read about the true facts and research through Zundel and Rudolf, it changed my life. I am of German ancestry and this was like a bolt of lightning in waking me up.
But yes, we shouldn’t ONLY be about the holohoax, we need to get history from Carolyn’s shows, Irving’s writings, and Mark Weber’s lectures, and it is very important in my understanding of who I am as a descendant of the Germanic race.
Carolyn and Hadding (and Charles Krafft too)… keep up these great shows.
Robert Lloyd
August 3, 2012 at 8:56 am
As a Christian, and I believe there are too many Christians in the White Nationalist movement to ignore, there must be standards in what we strive for. As Carolyn stated, National Socialism was family based… THEY HAD STANDARDS! How else could Hitler have mesmerized his audience and speaking to them for up to 4 hours at a time, without having standards? Standards pull people together… high standards. I believe the Germans of the Third Reich had the highest standards of maybe any group of people on earth. And no, I don’t just believe it… I KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE. It is why the Jews must destroy us.
Then the talk about distancing ourselves from the holocaust debate is not good either. This is an important issue where we are becoming successful and has the ability to totally discredit the monstrous Jew. When I first read about the true facts and research through Zundel and Rudolf, it changed my life. I am of German ancestry and this was like a bolt of lightning in waking me up.
But yes, we shouldn’t ONLY be about the holohoax, we need to get history from Carolyn’s shows, Irving’s writings, and Mark Weber’s lectures, and it is very important in my understanding of who I am as a descendant of the Germanic race.
—————-
Some very agreeable comments there, except for mentioning Irving and Weber. From my understanding both of them are compromised.
As for Christianity, I’m in multiple minds. To be frank, I think it’s a variation of Santa Claus with a twist. Be Mr Nice Guy and you will get lots of good presents when you die. Don’t be Mr Nice Guy and there’s lots of bad presents for you, forever and forever.
In the here and now, it also tends to neuter males’ protective aggression towards outsiders, allowing our enemies to enter the city gates and subvert us. Turn the other cheek, the meek will inherit the earth, render to Caesar, and so on. All ideal thoughts to instill acceptance of dictatorship, slavery, it so happens.
On the positive side, it’s part of our heritage and culture that many people feel all warm and fuzzy about. I do.
Anyway, White people of all persuasions need to unite and work together for the common good of our race.
We need to break out of our various forms of mental bondage and confront our enemies (jews, if you happen to have forgotten) and defeat them.
Serious question: Is David Irving reliable in part or in whole or not? I invested time reading on two of his books. If Irving is not reliable, well, that’s annoying. It means I wasted time.
Robert – Thank you for this heart-felt and impassioned comment. I too think there are too many Christians in the White Nationalist movement to ignore — and to even speak rudely to. I am so against Christian-bashing. That’s the Jew’s game. I can truthfully say “Some of my best friends are Christians!” A joke, but true. You are one of them, Robert. Thanks for your forthright honesty.
Goebbels is David Irving’s worst book, but if you read it carefully you can discern what the flaws are. For example he makes it clear in some instances that there is a contradiction between the “Goebbels Diaries” and what other sources say happened. An intelligent reader will pick up on the fact that there is something wrong with the “Goebbels Diaries” as a source. Irving basically tells you in his own (worst) book that he is relying heavily on a dubious source.
I think David Irving is worthwhile, but you can’t take him as the final authority; you have to read him carefully, with some skepticism, just as you would a mainstream historian.
“Should White Nationalists leave the Holocaust alone?”
The clear answer would be yes and not necessarily because of the “Holocaust”.
White Nationalism is filled with agent saboteurs and/or useful idiots.
The last people on Earth that should try to educate the public of the utterly fantastic mythological claims of the Holocaust® should be WN’s.
If the reader recalls in the 1970’s a “Nazi” named Frank Collins
http://youtu.be/FW3jsTAnUFg
aka Francis Joseph Cohen lead the American Nazi Party for about 8 years. He held vulgar rallies and certainly to Carolyn’s chagrin, was instrumental in propping up the Holocaust and forever embedding it in the American vernacular.
All by design of course. Divide and conquer on steroids. Collins-Cohen plan was assisted by ACLU attorney David Goldberger with a rally in the “most densely populated Jewish community in America”. Collins-Cohen claimed he was helping the White community but only engaged in cartoony parades with “Niggers Beware” protest signs.
Nothing has changed. And nothing has been learned.
Every time Whites in America try to foment a noble attempt at activism, the WN shows up to defeat them. Either purposeful or by default.
Don Black knew full well that his now infamous deceptive photo op with Ron Paul would hurt his campaign. Ron Paul supporters had to spend their time explaining the truth of the matter. And less time on the issues.
During illegal immigration rallies the White Nationalist would show up to the amusement of the chosen organizer on the other side no doubt, and give ammunition to the enemies of America. The ego of the WN is more important that the invasion of 50 million illegal aliens.
Americans do not want to be lead or lectured by pseudo Nazis. The WN serves no purpose anymore. Even the proclaimed project by WN’s of “educating about the Jew” mantra is a non sequitur from the beginning. WN’s should not be the ones educating of anything and add the fact of most websites for years that allow free speech are “aware” of the problem. Finally, WN’s have not and never will do anything of substance to further the goals, civil rights and survival of the White race. Ever.
I would discuss what is needed but that is another issue.
As for the “Holocaust” there is good news. About 2 years after 9-11 I began to realize that the push for mass immigration came from a single source. The whole neocon phenomena was exposed for all to see.
Or the obvious “war on terror” with an open border. From that point on I was open to other arguments.
And here is our trump card. Many years ago I read an article that someone posted on a normal forum of Ernst Zundel’s imprisonment. The thread went on for a time until the owner got cold feet. In any event, I was perplexed of why someone would go to prison for speech, even kooky speech. And why are these laws in effect in more than a dozen European nations. The thread had links to the now famous “denier bud” videos.
The fact is that in any forum where little or no censorship is applied, any frank discussion of the events of WWII bring forth a bitter truth to behold.
Even now the hysterical emoters proclaiming the photos of dead bodies as “proof” are quickly debunked. It’s now almost a running joke on a number of forums when a thread is deleted…’Ah, it must have been about the chosen ones’.
In real life when the “Holocaust” comes up I say, “Hmm, it’s illegal in more than a dozen nations to question the historical facts. That’s all I really need to know.”
@Euro American
What you say has nothing specifically to do with revisionism. Your point here was really just to run down White Nationalists. Your position is that White Nationalists can do nothing right.
If the White Nationalists that you know are completely incompetent to do anything then I suggest you find a better crowd.
I wonder if you even listened to the discussion before posting your comment, because you really seem to have responded only to the title. The question is whether revisionism is helpful for White survival, not whether White Nationalists are competent to make revisionist arguments.
Let me try and understand the (serious)White racialist take on homosexuality.
The danger pro-White homosexuals pose to White Racialism is that:
1. They will network amongst themselves (as homosexuals always do)
2. Influenced by their different natures as homosexuals, they will reach flawed conclusions and advocate flawed strategies
3. Most importantly, their agenda, sooner of later, will triumph over all the others because, as Kevin Macdonald points out, an organized minority will always beat down the defenses of an individualistic majority
4. If Hadding is right about Greg then his New Right piece, along with his holocaust revisionism piece, could be seen as a coup attempt by the movement’s homosexual minority to take it over.
5. In light of all this, even if they do produce energetic, top-notch, intellectuals like Greg Johnson, it’s not worth the risk of including them.
In other words they’re Jews-lite.
If memory serves this is similiar to E. Michael Jones’ view and, incidentally, that’s the first and only time I’ve ever heard a serious critique of homosexuality.
Personally… I just don’t know & I’ll continue to suspend judgement. I’ll admit though that I also experienced your WTF moment when I read the 2 articles in question written by Johnson.
Thomas Atkins wrote:
3. Most importantly, their agenda, sooner of later, will triumph over all the others because, as Kevin Macdonald points out, an organized minority will always beat down the defenses of an individualistic majority
The White “individualistic majority” referring to Whites is only a recent American phenomena. It does not exist in Europe. And it did not exist before 1980.
Rush Limbaugh dittohead, survivalist lunacy that has infected the American White.
*This* is why Whites are facing extermination in America. Yet every time anyone on a White oriented forum make note of the problem or asks for solutions…they are met with egregious and hostile responses.
If any of you think can sit on your keister in front of a keyboard all day pontificating bootstraps for Whites while crying that other ethnic groups work hard at networking….the White race will go extinct.
No amount of guns, cans of tuna or bunkers will save you. Either we begin to network, care and support each other…or we will die.
What the hell Euro American’s point is supposed to be here is beyond me.
I think he ought at least to listen to the podcast before commenting. Neither of the comments that he has posted here is relevant to anything that we discussed.
Hadding Wrote:
“What the hell Euro American’s point is supposed to be here is beyond me.
I think he ought at least to listen to the podcast before commenting. Neither of the comments that he has posted here is relevant to anything that we discussed.”
I did listen to the program. And IIRC, the question was whether WN’s should stay away from the “Holocaust” issue as proposed by Johnson. And I agree with that premise. And to address your previous post…
Yes, my point is crystal clear of running down White Nationalists. They deserve nothing but contempt. They are indeed the enemy of White Survival. Even more so than Jews. They will be the first to state that Whites should not network in real life and specifically go out of their way to insure that remains so.
I’ve been to all the WN sites, Stormfront, VNN, the Phora, etc. Anyone that presses the issue of why Whites remain on the net and are absent in real life networking are either ignored, insulted or banned. I’ve met WN at get togethers. They always have a Deer in the headlights look when I suggest such a heresy of networking. Bitching about Jews and consuming Becks is all they can muster. WN is a fraud.
But let’s digress. Greg Johnson is incorrect is his belief that the “Holocaust” is not the foundation of Jewish power. It is the pinnacle of their victimhood. And allows them to engage in political, military and financial crimes beyond reproach and without end. They are committing murder of not only White culture but of the entire world.
Therefore, someone needs to expose this agenda. Slowly, by proxy, this is occurring via the internet. But if there is to be a group to focus on this it should be those without the baggage and the fodder ADL feeds upon. Should the KKK be the ones to expose Black on White crime? The racism and injustice of Affirmative Action? Or should the Westboro Church be assigned the task of educating of the Gay agenda?
Would anyone prudent send someone to VNN forum for coherent information on Holocaust Revisionism or Carolyn’s Blog and Codoh?
Euro American:
There is no indication in your first two posts that you heard the podcast. By now apparently you have listened to it at least once, but the argument that you use for why (quoting the title) “White Nationalists should leave the Holocaust alone” is not Greg Johnson’s argument at all. The question of whether some or all WNs are capable of making revisionist arguments was not part of the discussion.
Of course there are better and worse thinkers, better and worse speakers in WN. Your comments are gratuitously negative.
I don’t like doing this, but I will post this comment sent to me by a European. (Not a German.) But don’t expect me to do it again.
Previous comment: “Germany, twice destroyed by their very hodgepodge of a country [=the USA] and its kike string-pullers: first physically, then — and unceasingly since “Nuremberg” — spiritually.”
It’s claimed that Germany has been submitted to heavy influence by the American government since WWII. That is supposed to explain why it’s so dangerous to criticize the Jews in Germany. Actually, I don’t think that direct American interference is still a reality in Germany today. And also, Germany has fewer Jews than France. So, I wonder how it works, and why it seems more dangerous to criticize the Jews in Germany than in France.
The current German “republic” is legally based on the findings/conclusions of the Nuremberg Tribunals. This is direct American interference that will never go away. The Germans in government acquiesce to this; if they protested they would be legally removed for breaking the “law.” Someone might argue the German people could overcome this if they wanted, but those in power “don’t want.” Those in power are all leftists committed to a non-nationalist Germany. They use the “Holocaust” to convince Germans to go along with them, and that they owe an eternal debt to Jews. The Germans are not allowed to hear anything else. All nationalist voices are demonized.
Günter Deckert is going to be with me on Saturday Afternoon with Carolyn, August 11. Tune in live and ask him your questions.